Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Legacy openhie-shr
1

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

2

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

···

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com [mailto:openhie-shr@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM
To: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com
Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

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3

Hi Derek,

Nice to meet you, I’m following the resources you shared.

Thanks!

WebRep

Overall rating

···

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Derek Ritz (ecGroup) derek.ritz@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com [mailto:openhie-shr@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM
To: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com
Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

–
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Shared Health Record (OpenHIE)” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openhie-shr+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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4

Hi Derek,

This sounds great. If we continue this, I might actually end up becoming an expert, and then we’ll give you a run for your money :slight_smile:

I’m looking at the QED document ( http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf) that you pointed us to.

Now, in line (4250) this document states “Vital Signs Observation 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 A vital signs observation is a simple observation that uses a specific vocabulary, and inherits constraints from CCD.”

And sure enough, line 4280 gives us a table with the vital signs (with LOINC codes)

So If we understood you correctly,

(1) Since the IHE profile page (http://wiki.ihe.net/index.php?title=1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.16.1.1) doesn’t describe a vital signs value set, we are using the one recommended by PCC.

(2) So basically ‘IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard’ .Whats the relationship between the PCC profiles and IHE’s profiles ? are they a fall back since the IHE profile doesn’t list certain value sets ?

···

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:58 AM, vaibhav agarwal kmit.vaibhav@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Derek,

Nice to meet you, I’m following the resources you shared.

Thanks!

WebRep

Overall rating

–

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Shared Health Record (OpenHIE)” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openhie-shr+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Derek Ritz (ecGroup) derek.ritz@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com [mailto:openhie-shr@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM
To: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com
Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

–
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Shared Health Record (OpenHIE)” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openhie-shr+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

5

Hi Suranga.

IHE has a number of committees; one of these is the Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee. This committee tends to focus on “content” profiles. PCC identifies what should be the mandatory (and optional) elements inside a CDA so that the CDA can support specific care delivery scenarios (e.g. ANC visit, ED referral, immunizations, etc.). So, all PCC profiles are IHE profiles. The PCC profiles tend to leverage the profiles developed by IHE’s IT Infrastructure (ITI) committee (e.g. XDS.b, CT, ATNA).

One of the important things to note is that CDA document types have an ID (an OID, identifying for example, that the document is an APHP), sections have OIDs (e.g. the Vital Signs section), and then sometimes the coded clinical concepts within a section (e.g. blood pressure) also have an OID. There is also the concept of an hierarchy – so the section OID would have the document OID as a parent and the clinical concept OID would have the section OID as a parent.

What you may be finding is a disconnect between the wiki pages and the published technical frameworks. Please… use the TF and supplementary documents as the go-to for this information. They are subject to revision and to ballot… and the wiki pages are not and can fall out of sync with the published frameworks.

Justin will be posting some info that he has put together on this topic. He is the true expert, Suranga, not me. I will invite him to wade in with more detail and his much stronger technical/programmer experience.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

···

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: Suranga Kasthurirathne [mailto:surangak@openmrs.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:47 AM
To: vaibhav agarwal
Cc: Derek Ritz (ecGroup); openhie-shr@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi Derek,

This sounds great. If we continue this, I might actually end up becoming an expert, and then we’ll give you a run for your money :slight_smile:

I’m looking at the QED document ( http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf) that you pointed us to.

Now, in line (4250) this document states “Vital Signs Observation 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 A vital signs observation is a simple observation that uses a specific vocabulary, and inherits constraints from CCD.”

And sure enough, line 4280 gives us a table with the vital signs (with LOINC codes)

So If we understood you correctly,

(1) Since the IHE profile page (http://wiki.ihe.net/index.php?title=1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.16.1.1) doesn’t describe a vital signs value set, we are using the one recommended by PCC.

(2) So basically ‘IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard’ .Whats the relationship between the PCC profiles and IHE’s profiles ? are they a fall back since the IHE profile doesn’t list certain value sets ?

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:58 AM, vaibhav agarwal kmit.vaibhav@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Derek,

Nice to meet you, I’m following the resources you shared.

Thanks!

WebRep

Overall rating

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Derek Ritz (ecGroup) derek.ritz@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com [mailto:openhie-shr@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM
To: openhie-shr@googlegroups.com
Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

–
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Shared Health Record (OpenHIE)” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openhie-shr+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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6

Hi Suranga,

Insert: I just noticed Derek replied while I was typing this, so apologies if there is any duplicate information :slight_smile:

The PCC is an IHE domain, the Wiki is an informative resource, the source of truth is the technical framework PDF files and their supplements (I rarely use the Wiki because it is often dated or not updated to match the TF). They can be a pain to navigate, which is why I usually create a spreadsheet of the references and templates (I have uploaded one for some content profiles).

On your second question, all templates can inherit from another template. Basically the rule is that a template will inherit the constraints from the parent (the template upon which it is based) and may further constrain it (i.e. they will be comptaible). For example, the coded vital signs section’s parent is vital signs. This means that a “coded vital signs” section will adhere to the rules stated in “coded vital signs”, “vital signs”, and CCD section 3.12. Meaning on the wire a system would state this as:

Also, the QED document’s description of vital signs might be a little dated as the appendicies appear to be copies of the TF at that time (which looks like 2008, I’ll confirm this to be sure). I would use the PCC TF as the source of truth (Volume 2) and the CDA content modules supplement.

There, a vital signs observation is wrapped in a vital signs organizer (according to the Coded Vital Signs section template, 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.5.3.2, found on PCC TF-2:6.3.3.4.5 or page 104). This vital signs organizer definition is to be used in QED messages and CDA documents. The vital signs observation template is 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 and can be found in PCC TF-2:6.3.4.22 on page 185.

Also, you can use Gazelle to validate your instance to make sure you’re following the templates properly. Gazelle provides the EVS (External Validation Service) found here: http://gazelle.ihe.net/EVSClient/cda/validator.seam?cid=467

Cheers

-Justin

···

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:47:15 AM UTC-4, Suranga Kasthurirathne wrote:

Hi Derek,

This sounds great. If we continue this, I might actually end up becoming an expert, and then we’ll give you a run for your money :slight_smile:

I’m looking at the QED document ( http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf) that you pointed us to.

Now, in line (4250) this document states “Vital Signs Observation 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 A vital signs observation is a simple observation that uses a specific vocabulary, and inherits constraints from CCD.”

And sure enough, line 4280 gives us a table with the vital signs (with LOINC codes)

So If we understood you correctly,

(1) Since the IHE profile page (http://wiki.ihe.net/index.php?title=1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.16.1.1) doesn’t describe a vital signs value set, we are using the one recommended by PCC.

(2) So basically ‘IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard’ .Whats the relationship between the PCC profiles and IHE’s profiles ? are they a fall back since the IHE profile doesn’t list certain value sets ?

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:58 AM, vaibhav agarwal kmit.v...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Derek,

Nice to meet you, I’m following the resources you shared.

Thanks!

WebRep

Overall rating

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Derek Ritz (ecGroup) derek...@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openh...@googlegroups.com [mailto:openh...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM
To: openh...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

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7

Hi Justin,

Thanks for sharing Gazelle validator link to validate our instances. We no longer need to worry about all time broken link of cda tools

(cdatools.org/validaton).

Thanks a lot! :slight_smile:

Best Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal
WebRep

Overall rating

···

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:51 PM, justin.fyfe@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Suranga,

Insert: I just noticed Derek replied while I was typing this, so apologies if there is any duplicate information :slight_smile:

The PCC is an IHE domain, the Wiki is an informative resource, the source of truth is the technical framework PDF files and their supplements (I rarely use the Wiki because it is often dated or not updated to match the TF). They can be a pain to navigate, which is why I usually create a spreadsheet of the references and templates (I have uploaded one for some content profiles).

On your second question, all templates can inherit from another template. Basically the rule is that a template will inherit the constraints from the parent (the template upon which it is based) and may further constrain it (i.e. they will be comptaible). For example, the coded vital signs section’s parent is vital signs. This means that a “coded vital signs” section will adhere to the rules stated in “coded vital signs”, “vital signs”, and CCD section 3.12. Meaning on the wire a system would state this as:

Also, the QED document’s description of vital signs might be a little dated as the appendicies appear to be copies of the TF at that time (which looks like 2008, I’ll confirm this to be sure). I would use the PCC TF as the source of truth (Volume 2) and the CDA content modules supplement.

There, a vital signs observation is wrapped in a vital signs organizer (according to the Coded Vital Signs section template, 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.5.3.2, found on PCC TF-2:6.3.3.4.5 or page 104). This vital signs organizer definition is to be used in QED messages and CDA documents. The vital signs observation template is 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 and can be found in PCC TF-2:6.3.4.22 on page 185.

Also, you can use Gazelle to validate your instance to make sure you’re following the templates properly. Gazelle provides the EVS (External Validation Service) found here: http://gazelle.ihe.net/EVSClient/cda/validator.seam?cid=467

Cheers

-Justin

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:47:15 AM UTC-4, Suranga Kasthurirathne wrote:

Hi Derek,

This sounds great. If we continue this, I might actually end up becoming an expert, and then we’ll give you a run for your money :slight_smile:

I’m looking at the QED document ( http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf) that you pointed us to.

Now, in line (4250) this document states “Vital Signs Observation 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 A vital signs observation is a simple observation that uses a specific vocabulary, and inherits constraints from CCD.”

And sure enough, line 4280 gives us a table with the vital signs (with LOINC codes)

So If we understood you correctly,

(1) Since the IHE profile page (http://wiki.ihe.net/index.php?title=1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.16.1.1) doesn’t describe a vital signs value set, we are using the one recommended by PCC.

(2) So basically ‘IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard’ .Whats the relationship between the PCC profiles and IHE’s profiles ? are they a fall back since the IHE profile doesn’t list certain value sets ?

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:58 AM, vaibhav agarwal kmit.v...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Derek,

Nice to meet you, I’m following the resources you shared.

Thanks!

WebRep

Overall rating

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Derek Ritz (ecGroup) derek...@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openh...@googlegroups.com [mailto:openh...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal

Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM

To: openh...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

–
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Shared Health Record (OpenHIE)” group.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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8

No Problem,

You can also download other people’s CDA instances as well if you need examples.

Cheers

-Justin

···

Hi Justin,

Thanks for sharing Gazelle validator link to validate our instances. We no longer need to worry about all time broken link of cda tools

(cdatools.org/validaton).

Thanks a lot! :slight_smile:

Best Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:51 PM, justin.fyfe@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Suranga,

Insert: I just noticed Derek replied while I was typing this, so apologies if there is any duplicate information :slight_smile:

The PCC is an IHE domain, the Wiki is an informative resource, the source of truth is the technical framework PDF files and their supplements (I rarely use the Wiki because it is often dated or not updated to match the TF). They can be a pain to navigate, which is why I usually create a spreadsheet of the references and templates (I have uploaded one for some content profiles).

On your second question, all templates can inherit from another template. Basically the rule is that a template will inherit the constraints from the parent (the template upon which it is based) and may further constrain it (i.e. they will be comptaible). For example, the coded vital signs section’s parent is vital signs. This means that a “coded vital signs” section will adhere to the rules stated in “coded vital signs”, “vital signs”, and CCD section 3.12. Meaning on the wire a system would state this as:

Also, the QED document’s description of vital signs might be a little dated as the appendicies appear to be copies of the TF at that time (which looks like 2008, I’ll confirm this to be sure). I would use the PCC TF as the source of truth (Volume 2) and the CDA content modules supplement.

There, a vital signs observation is wrapped in a vital signs organizer (according to the Coded Vital Signs section template, 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.5.3.2, found on PCC TF-2:6.3.3.4.5 or page 104). This vital signs organizer definition is to be used in QED messages and CDA documents. The vital signs observation template is 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 and can be found in PCC TF-2:6.3.4.22 on page 185.

Also, you can use Gazelle to validate your instance to make sure you’re following the templates properly. Gazelle provides the EVS (External Validation Service) found here: http://gazelle.ihe.net/EVSClient/cda/validator.seam?cid=467

Cheers

-Justin

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 11:47:15 AM UTC-4, Suranga Kasthurirathne wrote:

Hi Derek,

This sounds great. If we continue this, I might actually end up becoming an expert, and then we’ll give you a run for your money :slight_smile:

I’m looking at the QED document ( http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf) that you pointed us to.

Now, in line (4250) this document states “Vital Signs Observation 1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.4.13.2 A vital signs observation is a simple observation that uses a specific vocabulary, and inherits constraints from CCD.”

And sure enough, line 4280 gives us a table with the vital signs (with LOINC codes)

So If we understood you correctly,

(1) Since the IHE profile page (http://wiki.ihe.net/index.php?title=1.3.6.1.4.1.19376.1.5.3.1.1.16.1.1) doesn’t describe a vital signs value set, we are using the one recommended by PCC.

(2) So basically ‘IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard’ .Whats the relationship between the PCC profiles and IHE’s profiles ? are they a fall back since the IHE profile doesn’t list certain value sets ?

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:58 AM, vaibhav agarwal kmit.v...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Derek,

Nice to meet you, I’m following the resources you shared.

Thanks!

WebRep

Overall rating

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Derek Ritz (ecGroup) derek...@ecgroupinc.com wrote:

Hi Vaibhav.

Good to meet you and happy to direct you towards IHE content that may be helpful.

IHE CDA content, for sections and for data elements, is specified in their technical framework (TF) and content modules supplement documents (the latter of which are in trial implementation, or TI status, now). All of these are available from the IHE wiki, but I find the wiki a bit challenging the navigate (there seems to be a different page for everything). To just get to the documents themselves, I suggest going directly to the IHE ftp site. The Patient Care Coordination (PCC) committee’s current published documents are found here: ftp://ftp.ihe.net/DocumentPublication/CurrentPublished/PatientCareCoordination/.

It is important to note that the PCC profiles rely on (and reference, but don’t duplicate) a set of underlying IHE IT Infrastructure (ITI) profiles, including XDS, ATNA and CT (and sometimes others). It is also useful to note that almost all of IHE’s CDA content profiles are constrained versions of the HL7 Continuity of Care Document (CCD) standard. Again, this HL7 spec is referenced but often not duplicated in the IHE specs.

Justin and I are working on a similar track, at present, as part of the OpenHIE SHR community. Let’s be sure to share info back and forth on this. For example, as part of the SHR work, we’re looking at the coded vital signs necessary to satisfy PCC’s Query for Existing Data (QED) supplement. I’d recommend this as a useful approach for you as well. The QED document can be found here: http://www.ihe.net/Technical_Framework/upload/IHE_PCC_Query_for_Existing_Data_QED_Supplement_TI_2008-08-22.pdf.

I hope this is helpful.

Warmest regards,

Derek.

Derek Ritz, P.Eng., CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

+1 (905) 515-0045

www.ecgroupinc.com

This communication is intended only for the party to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is privileged or confidential. Any other delivery, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of privilege or confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and destroy the message and any attachments.

Le présent courriel et les documents qui y sont joints sont confidentiels et protégés et s’adressent exclusivement au destinataire mentionné ci-dessus. L’expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et privilèges qui s’y rapportent ni à leur caractère confidentiel. Toute prise de connaissance, diffusion, utilisation ou reproduction de ce message ou des documents qui y sont joints, ainsi que des renseignements que chacun contient, par une personne autre que le destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le détruire immédiatement et m’en informer.

From: openh...@googlegroups.com [mailto:openh...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of vaibhav agarwal

Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 7:56 AM

To: openh...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section

Hi all,

My name is Vaibhav Agarwal and I’m working with Suranga Kasturirathne and Jeremy Keiper to develop OpenMRS module that generates CDA messages as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Program.

we have started populating OpenMRS data into particular sections of APHP CDA message. I’ve completed populating answers for three sections (Chief Complaint, History of Present Illness and Social History section).

Currently, I’m trying to obtain value sets for vital sign section, but IHE page here doesn’t list any value set.Any thoughts on what data must be included in this section?

we would also like to take your advice on what codes to use?

IHE page says to use specific SNOMED CT codes which are specified in value set. Can we use a concept with other SNOMED CT code than the specified one.

you can take a look at CDA message generated so far here

any comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Vaibhav Agarwal

WebRep

Overall rating

–

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “Shared Health Record (OpenHIE)” group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to openhie-shr...@googlegroups.com.

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